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|   |  Jan Bylov Registered Member
        Date Joined May 2008 Total Posts : 2 | Posted 5/28/2008 7:17 PM (GMT +8) |   | | Dear Ahmad - well researched and refreshingly to study these market forces which are yet another illustration of the human race's ability to adopt to an ever changing environment. | | Back to Top | | |
  |  Ahmad Abdallah Registered Member
        Date Joined May 2007 Total Posts : 183 | Posted 5/28/2008 7:34 PM (GMT +8) |   |
A client asked: said... I’m wondering if Ahmad has an “Oil Futures 101” writeup or something that might explain how Calpers putting a greater allocation of its money into the Goldman Sach’s Commodity Index or directly into oil through the futures market affects the real price that natural buyers pay.
It has been my thesis as Portfolio Manager for 3 years now that this was largely financial speculation driven by easy money and a low cost to carry. It has now gone well beyond anything I understand. Any insight Ahmad could offer would help.
Dear Friend,
I wish there was such a 101 in Oil Futures. I’ll answer your question in a way I think is true but I have to state that opinions on the impact of speculators in commodities are divided among professionals. I have just replied to another customer on the same subject earlier today so maybe I can copy you the body of the conversation:
Who is a commercial hedger is no longer clear.
Today “commercials” hold 827 million barrels of length (for sure almost the same in short positions but that’s not the point). In the early part of this decade they held between 300 and 400 million barrels only. World consumption hasn’t grown by 100% and “true” commercials that are classified as natural hedgers by the CFTC only hedge part of their production, never 100%, unless they are very small marginal producers whose finances are tied to hedging 100% of production (even that must have change in today’s environment). In fact big oil never hedges production at all. They only lock-in physical commitments with spreads which is their bread and butter since the time optionality associated with delivery has never been priced-in and is theirs for the taking.
So where are all these new 400 million barrels of “commercial” activity coming from? Well when an Investment bank option trader takes an order from one of its client like a “hedge fund”: “Buy me 40 million barrels Dec-09 OTM calls, will pay no more than 5%” the bank’s trader will make him a market (over time etc.) but then the bank’s delta hedging is now classified as a natural hedger and the option’s delta goes into the “commercial” classification. Now how do you disentangle between a physical hedging and a speculative hedging? The fact is that the bank’s hedging activity from its customer flow is not purely related to physical hedging. If it was then the open interest for commercials wouldn’t have changed so much.
Does that affect the price?
That’s an even more contentious issue. I am of the opinion that we’ve recently witnessed three types of hoarding of commodities:
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Price hoarding from commodity index speculation. (Type 1)
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Physical hoarding from some ETF contractual obligations. (Type 2)
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Commodity exposure hoarding for lowering a portfolio’s correlation. (Type 3)
The first point above, Type 1, constantly adds volume on the buy side which forces higher price level regardless of the fundamentals of the underlying market. Yes for every buyer there is a seller but then why does price change? It changes because of tiny liquidity gaps where no seller can be found or not much volume is to be found on the sell side, forcing buyers to chase volume at higher price. Speculation is a natural phenomenon associated with open markets and it serves a valuable purpose. Today, however, the decision to enter the long side is mainly based on price momentum which feeds upon itself. That can and will disappear, however.
The second point, Type 2 is worrying because if you hoard physical commodities purely to satisfy contractual demand based on price then that commodity will not reach the markets in times of penury. After all there’s nothing like penury to send price higher so hoarding becomes even more attractive.
I'll explain the third point, Type 3. In 2006 I attended several workshops on ETFs. It became clear that portfolio managers only interest was on diversification through low to negative correlation. Price had no meaning. If a manager bought oil at $200 and its price fell to $100 the manager would keep on buying as long as it served its beta purpose.
Now if enough players enter a market to hoard for any of the three reasons above then we reach a stage where price gains momentum and sustains it purely on that buying decision. If we look at the price of oil, historically a price trend never lasted for more than 3 months. Now we've been in an uptrend for over 18 months and that trend keeps on accelerating. So hoarding type 2 and 3 kill the purpose of price acting as a signal. The only signal we get today is that price is getting higher which in turns motivate price hoarding (type 1).
The purpose of government inventories is to store in years of plenty and release stocks in meager years. A practice that dates back since Joseph interpreted the dream of the seven fat cows followed by seven lean ones.
In my view none of the points above achieve a smoothing out of commodity supplies and certainly not type 2 or 3. In that case price signal has ceased to exist (we don't rely on dream signals anymore). It is just incidental that today's oil markets could do with a price spike to shake-out consumption behaviour (some readers will beg to differ, I know).
While I do not doubt that demand behaviour is changing we are in no ways assured that a serious slowing in demand will in any way affect the price uptrend. So far it hasn't for oil.
That's why I believe that Michael Masters' analysis and recommendations are extremely relevant. What I think is being missed in reading his analysis is precisely that current hoarding will never achieve a smoothing out of supply. That is the point that was very clearly understood in the early years of 20th century America by market regulators. And to ensure that price will keep on acting as a signal to stabilize supply/demand balances, regulators then had to seriously limit non-commercial position size. That has completely disappeared today.
I’m not too sure that qualifies for a 101 in oil futures and would be happy to clarify further.
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 |  Andy Registered Member
        Date Joined May 2008 Total Posts : 1 | Posted 5/28/2008 10:22 PM (GMT +8) |   | | At the end of the day, while there has clearly been an enormous amount of "commodities as an asset" money coming into commodities markets, none of these buyers are end users. I might be completely misguided here but in my mind, even though CAL-Pers might own many oil futures, they can never actually take delivery of the oil. At some point, the oil futures must get sold to some actual user in the spot market. With significant flows from these "financial buyers" coming into the markets, this fact might currently be oscured but it seems an important consideration. | | Back to Top | | |
  |  Ahmad Abdallah Registered Member
        Date Joined May 2007 Total Posts : 183 | Posted 5/29/2008 1:03 PM (GMT +8) |   |
A Client said: said... even if demand peaks (it has too, cuz u can't consume more oil than there is supply), supply will fall of the cliff faster in the next 5 years. Russia, Mexico, Indonesia, North Sea, OPEC are all in decline, who is going to pump more oil? Canadian oil sands output will increase by only 1mb/day by 2012 and Kashagan will produce 1.8mb/day by 2020. So, we have 2.8mb/day extra by 2020. Have u seen how fast Cantarell is declining - it dropped 24% last year. Ghawar has also peaked. There is a shortage of geologists, equipment, drilling rigs and rising costs of developing new fields. Plus roughly 65% of oil reserves are in nations that won't allow foreign companies to develop. So, where is the oil going to come from?
Oil tankers in the Persian Gulf are there because the refineries in Asia which refine heavy Iranian crude are closed for maintenance, it has nothing to do with lack of demand at these high prices.
Only time will tell but I am convinced that we will NEVER produce more than 85.5 million barrel per day of conventional oil - NEVER.
Dear Friend,
In fact you are adding water to our mill even if we disagree on the supply side. All the more reasons to have a serious revue of the sheer amount of waste from the demand side. What really struck me is that over a third of all barrels are consumed to go from A to B within city limits by car. In our day and age it sounds like an anachronism.
There are precedents for tackling efficiently city transportation and Europe stands out as the only region to have never exceeded its petroleum demand since 1979. In fact Europe today could still do more on that front and probably will. But the emphasis now will be on fast emerging markets to find solutions to its use of petroleum. The city of Abu Dhabi where I currently live is going onto a very large mass transportation infrastructure investment. Gasoline is so cheap here that it’s not even worth counting how much you pay at the pump. But roads are used to capacity and there’s no parking space anywhere.
Even if we never produce more than 85.5 Mbd of conventional oil, and I’m in the ball park with you on that number, I can say hand on heart that big oil is on an R&D binge to find new liquids for transportation. Brazil did find those after the second oil shock and has never looked back.
Peak oil doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world. I think it’s a mistake to draw that kind of conclusion. | | Back to Top | | |
 |  sandid Registered Member
        Date Joined Apr 2007 Total Posts : 14 | Posted 5/29/2008 6:07 PM (GMT +8) |   | As a geophysicist I think the world’s ability to find more oil is only restricted by a lack of exploration capacity, not a lack of oil in the ground.
But on the speculator issue, would it not be simple to tax away any bubble effect by demanding a high stamp duty on every trade? Commercial users that are hedging could then be given a refund when they actually consume the oil. | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Ahmad Abdallah Registered Member
        Date Joined May 2007 Total Posts : 183 | Posted 5/29/2008 9:29 PM (GMT +8) |   | Dear Andy, Thanks for you insights on oil reserves. This is the subject of very intense debate within the industry itself and for now only time will tell.
On speculation one of its great success is that the leverage achieved with futures is tremendous. For a mere 7% deposit you can buy as much oil as you can afford. With price until recently being a one way street this attracted many speculators.
Would the initial margin deposit to enter futures be 50%, my guess is that we would have seen far less speculation as players would have had to think twice as hard whether it made sense to keep on buying. In any case that much less funds would have been allocated to speculation since its leverage would only be 2 to 1.
But leverage works both ways. When price starts to fall, if you get out at a loss, your loss becomes 14 times your initial bet. That is usually an incentive for greater consideration before entering into a position but once a powerful trend develops, speculators tend to forget about it. | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Ahmad Abdallah Registered Member
        Date Joined May 2007 Total Posts : 183 | Posted 5/31/2008 3:15 PM (GMT +8) |   |
A client said: said...
On the hot topic of oil, I have heard this morning one new potential explanation arising from a leading French economist
He put forward that since rational factors cannot fully explain the current oil price, you should go back to the initial assumptions, ie hard datas.
He reminded us that Chinese official statistics can be questionable and time to time politically biased. As well Saudian Arabia official data for oil production.
So he suggested that maybe real Chinese oil consumption can be up to 4MT higher than official figure, while Saudi Arabia production could be 2Mt lower than official production level ...
If this true or maybe just partially true, you can start to explain the current level for oil price. Dear Friend,
There's one thing the industry is famous for, it's losing barrels of oil into the ether and finding then somewhere else at a later date.
But I wouldn't put to much into these statistics. What really matters today is that oil is being offered at a discount for prompt deliveries. A physical trader would only do that if he can't find a home for his barrels, it's like selling jeans on sales at the retail outlet to get rid of stocks and entice customers to buy.
Maybe those that bid the price higher have gone way beyond what the physical market is telling us. In fact I do agree with the economist that something is not rational, physical oil at a discount while futures oil at record price levels. One of these two markets got it wrong.
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 |  Ahmad Abdallah Registered Member
        Date Joined May 2007 Total Posts : 183 | Posted 5/31/2008 3:22 PM (GMT +8) |   |
A Client asked: said...
Hi Ahmad, Thanks for your very thought-provoking oil reports. Herewith an exchange of emails with an oil analyst at a bulge-bracket brokerage house. Could you please give me some thoughts on his reply?
1 - From me
Should we be dumping oil stocks and running for the hills? The following arguments might suggest we should...Any chance you could ask around your more savvy colleagues?
-China demand, geopolitical conflicts, peaking of oil reserves etc are all (debatebly) valid reasons to be bullish about oil. However, none of these factors has changed in the last 6 months, while oil prices have gone into orbit.
- Oil demand is increasing less rapidly than OPEC production. OPEC spare capacity should rise to 5mbpd by 2H08, equal to 50% of Saudi daily output. Iranian and Arab oil tankers are sitting offshore full of oil they cannot sell. OPEC thinks current prices are crazy (viz Saudi snub to Bush's request to raise output).
- Global derivative contract oil exposure is roughly equal to 82bn barrels, or 3x the annual global oil trade and 26x open interest in NYMEX crude futures.
- Oil demand destruction can happen pretty quickly. New infrastructure, transportation and construction in developing countries are much, much more oil efficient than previously. China is going to get nowhere near US per capita oil consumption; to extrapolate this is lunacy.
- Several measures suggest that gasoline demand destruction in the US could be imminent
- Several countries are considering removing or lowering oil product subsidies which could accelerate demand destruction.
- Brokers are (only now!) starting to upgrade oil price forecasts.
I would respectfully disagree with all the points except the point that demand destruction can happen quickly (which I agree) and the fact that brokers are getting more bullish could definitely be a short-term contrarian signal. I think a lot has changed in last 6 months on S/D side in terms of global power problems boosting diesel demand and Russia oil supply now declining. I do not agree we will have 5 mn b/d of OPEC spare capacity anytime soon. Subsidy removal and US demand destruction are good points, but in our view now needed to reduce global demand down to levels of available supply. If supply is barely growing, demand cannot grow faster so US demand has to decline to make room for non-OECD demand that thus far has been price inlastic. No subsidy cuts yet in China or Middle East. Derivative impat way overstated in our view. If he makes the claim that S/D has not changed that much in last 6 months (which again I disagree with), you can't claim all the derivatives activity has suddenly taken place in last 6 months...most of those contracts were all there as well in 2007.
We definitely think a short-term pullback can always happen and would be quite healthy. We are buyers of the dip.
Dear Friend,
Thanks for you kind comments. Let me go through it point by point, but first let us be clear that I am looking at longer term trend whereas brokers line of sight hardly goes beyond 6 months.
- Yes there is a global power shortage. China has closed coal mines so diesel is burned instead. SA has power shortages, even the Gulf countries have power shortages. In fact Kuwait routinely rotates black-outs in the summer, imagine. So that puts a lot of upward pressure on diesel, gasoil and fuel oil. BUT that is going to disappear over time. Kuwait and the UAE want to build coal fired plants, Oman has large reserves of coal to offer. The whole ME wants to go Nuclear, Turkey has put 3 tenders for nuclear power stations, Solar plants are being built etc. Power is the biggest headache in fact, not oil.
- Spare capacity is a function of both demand and supply actually. If supply remains the same but demand goes down then spare capacity goes-up. Does OPEC have the ability to add 5 Mbd to current production levels? Yes for sure! What they don’t have is enough materials and manpower to bring that about, there simply aren’t enough petroleum engineers around the world to satisfy all projects for exploration. To that we say thanks to the $10 per barrel of 1998 as a result of which all big oil and service companies fired anyone above 52 years old under the belief that oil will remain in the teens for ever and engineers won’t be required anymore.
- Should Saudi Arabia add 5 Mbd of production when the President of the United States in his Union Address says explicitly that his country will stop imports from the ME and replace those by home grown solutions by 2020? That’s a value judgement. What the Peak Demand paper didn’t show was that OPEC’s production following the demand destruction of the second oil shock went down from 31.3 Mbd in 1978 to 16.9Mbd in 1985 as production out of Europe climbed by a third and OECD by 50%.
- Russia’s production is stalling. Russia is changing taxation laws to boost investment in production.
- Total open interest in WTI futures stands at 2.3 billion barrels or 1 billion barrels more than a year ago. When the price goes-up and someone on the trading floor asks why is price going-up, the silly answer is invariably more buyers than sellers. But that’s the true answer, sellers will be parsimonous with their offer so buyers have to keep on bidding higher to entice sellers. Split this extra 1 billion barrels in half, 500 millions on the buy side and 500 million on the sell side, and to me at least that’s a lot of bidding needed to get hold of volume.
What the paper aimed to show is that the demand side has its role to play in easing supply/demand balances. The last oil price shock brought that about. A massive rethinking of energy usage went under way in the 80s. I think the same will happen today.
I hope that clarifies somewhat your concerns. For sure the debate about Peak Oil is not going to go away until there is a meaningful addition to spare capacity. The IEA estimates that spare capacity will double from about 2Mbd today to 4 Mbd by end 2009. One of the chicken and egg situation is that at current prices of developing new fields, bringing spare capacity online just to satisfy the Peak Oil crowd is just not worth contemplating. Would you spend your firm’s money on idle production?
Today the physical market is weak to very weak. The broker you talked to doesn’t seem to be involved in it. If you want a better picture you should ask a physical broker to give you a view of the current situation. Why is the physical market currently selling oil for prompt delivery at a discount? If oil is so sparse shouldn’t it sell at a premium? Or is it that physical traders have lost their marbles?
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 |  Ahmad Abdallah Registered Member
        Date Joined May 2007 Total Posts : 183 | Posted 5/31/2008 9:37 PM (GMT +8) |   |
A Client said... I guess my point was more that part of the underlying demand drivers in EM are not as sensitive to demand substitution as the analogy to the 70's and 80's would imply - i.e. the middle class guy in Beijing reacts to economic stimulus in a somewhat normal fashion in comparison to any OECD citizen (beta adjusted), but that same guy when he entered the economy (from being a peasant or whatever) is "new demand" for oil that is price insensitive on point of entry. It's fair that higher prices on balance mean less people entering the market economy, but each person that does enter is insensitive to price until he becomes a normal economic participant. If the above is true (I dropped out of school before I could finish my economics degree) then the reaction of China/India demand destruction should be very muted relative to the OECD experience, no?
Dear Friend,
There’s a lot to be said on the subject you’ve raised. New entrants in the EM are by and large at the factory floor level and that’s why the overwhelming share of energy consumption in those places is still found in the Industrial and Manufacturing sectors. I would even argue that until that new entrant runs his own car, his energy consumption must be much less than at the farm because he has now joined economies of scales through population density.
Now if we look at vehicle consumption then Emerging Markets are much more price sensitive than Developed countries. Not only are the numbers there (sorry I just can’t remember where I last read on the Price Elasticity of gasoline consumption) but intuitively it make sense because of the energy price to disposable income factor. In Indonesia, the myriad of tiny yellow vans used as taxis only refill 1 or 2 litres at a time. They get the fair, they go to the side of the road stall, they refill, they drop you; and that’s for heavily “bio” blended fuel sold at subsidized price (not for long anymore).
So I believe that the emphasis is really at the development and planning level. Up to now we are thinking governmental bodies by I think industries and factories that are large consumers will review their energy sources as well. The price is really there as an incentive for energy efficiency. That means, for example, choosing between quickly erected gasoil jet turbines for power production or a more thorough approach to long term energy modes. The difference between the two are likely to be found purely at the financing level. Burning gasoil is more a running cost, renewables a capex.
So where will the demand destruction be found in Chindia? Probably never because they are just moving along the demand curve for energy but petroleum is not the only source of energy which is the case we’ve made: The Chinese consumer will never reach the level of the US consumer per capita. That’s because the Chinese consumer is a new entrant with a greater scope of choices for his initial decision. That decision will affect his long term disposable income. The West has to deal with a legacy. The East is building its legacy today.
Would you agree?
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 |  daleyendecker Registered Member
        Date Joined Jan 2007 Total Posts : 24 | Posted 6/3/2008 9:54 PM (GMT +8) |   | | Just returned from a week in Seattle and Vancouver. Had never been there before. Spent most of the time in Vancouver, a pretty keen place for sure. What struck me as most interesting is their taxi's. I don't have any official data but it seemed to me that about 80% of their taxi's were Toyota Prius'. I didn't spend enough time in Seattle to get a feel for that market, but there too I saw a lot of Toyota Prius' as taxis. It makes obvious common sense. Why drive a taxi 80,000 miles a year that gets 18 miles per gallon when you can drive one that gets 45 miles per gallon? I can now "see" Manhattan soon full of Toyota Prius taxis. | | Back to Top | | |
  |  Ahmad Abdallah Registered Member
        Date Joined May 2007 Total Posts : 183 | Posted 6/4/2008 3:28 PM (GMT +8) |   |
A Client asked ...
Attached please find a recent piece by Charley Maxwell. Charley is one of our consultants and has been instrumental in helping us understand the concept of rising demand meeting an inelasticity of supply well over 7 years ago. We love GaveKal's research and insights but note that most of the writings related to oil over the last few years have proved to be mostly wrong....at least so far. I'd be curious as to your thoughts on Charley's comments, especially given your recent Peak Demand piece.
Thanks and hope you are well
Dear Friend,
Alas it is GaveKal’s misfortune to have recruited someone who doesn’t believe in Peak Oil at a time when the markets are buying that argument. At least I can consol myself that even Charles Maxwell, whose paper you kindly forwarded, only predicted an average price of $78 for 2008 (in Feb-08) although he is a proponent of Peak Oil. My forecast for 2008 made in Q4-07 was for $70. Given the current parabolic rise in oil price of late, for getting back down to an average of $70 the market will have to revert all of its gains made in the first half of this year and more. It is feasible and it may very well turn out that way although caution would suggest raising that price target to $90 which is where the market priced December 2008 on the first trading day of January 2008.
I will not enter into an argument on the supply side now because I am working on a large paper to be published soon. I will make a few other comments on Maxwell’s paper:
- 10% to 12% capacity cushion must be restored: at today’s numbers would imply that the industry has to have a minimum of 8.5Mbd of spare production capacity (and rising). This sounds wholly unrealistic in terms of supply side economics, although I note that in January 2002, OPEC’s spare capacity alone was in fact 6.5Mbd. Spare capacity is a function of demand and supply growth. That number changes not least due to elasticities as you rightfully pointed out. The elasticity of demand is clearly much faster than the elasticity of supply for the obvious reason that driving to fill the tank to a gas station is clearly much faster than bringing a new oil field to produce.
- At current price levels, maintaining such a large spare cushion is horrendously expensive. What really matters is understanding the behaviour of the demand side and accurately predicting future growth in what types of oil and sectors and invest accordingly; leads and lags will be taken care by price for the intermediary adjustment. What I clearly did not foresee is how far the market will take price away from the marginal cost of production of the marginal barrel. $65 is about the right marginal price on a fundamental basis at today’s massively inflated input costs. The market is pricing a 100% premium over that. The last time we saw that was in fact just before the first Gulf War. Here I take my share of responsibility for not seeing it coming.
- Spare capacity is also a function of the ability to refine the oil and that has been badly lagging in the biggest consuming areas.
- Supply chain management is so much more efficient than it were in the 1970s. Today oil is no more than 10 days away from any consumer, from the point of production to the point of delivery (that’s for the primary sector). As a result stocks need not grow as much as in the past which means that the cushion can be less. So the best measure I can give you is that “days cover” currently at 52.5 days in the OECD is about 22.5 days above lead times for tertiary supply in the OECD and if you’re less sanguine, 12.5 days for other markets. The cushion looks good to me. And you can double it if you include strategic reserves.
I guess it all boils down to whether one believes in peak oil or not. | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Greg Atkinson Registered Member
        Date Joined Jul 2008 Total Posts : 136 | Posted 7/23/2008 8:20 PM (GMT +8) |   | I must say after reading the Peak Demand article I have jumped off the Peak Oil bandwagon. It seems to me that the trend is away from oil now and it will not be reversed. When you look around any major developed city it is easy to see how much oil we waste..like all those SUV's and family wagons doing the daily commute with only one person inside. If you think the ancient Romans were a little silly using lead water pipes then we are even sillier pumping lead and other pollutants into the air we breath when we have alternatives. The other day here on TV in Japan I saw they even have a train running in some rural area on used cooking oil!
I think the recent surge in oil prices has given a nice push along to the development of alternative energy sources and as these technologies are refined they will become more viable and spread to throughout the developed and developing world. It will take time, but let's not forget it was not that long ago the typewriter reigned in the office! | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Ahmad Abdallah Registered Member
        Date Joined May 2007 Total Posts : 183 | Posted 7/23/2008 9:14 PM (GMT +8) |   | Dear Greg, I'm glad the Peak Demand paper made you change your mind. Since you are living in Japan let me tell you that Japan sits on one of the biggest gas reserves in the world. The snag is the it is a very difficult gas to extract and the technology to do so is very expensive. Yet the Japanese have managed to extract and produce a similar one in Canada and there is hope that they will be able to start producing their own soon enough. If they manage it they should become 100% self-sufficient in energy within a decade with reserves lasting around 90 years. | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Greg Atkinson Registered Member
        Date Joined Jul 2008 Total Posts : 136 | Posted 7/23/2008 10:30 PM (GMT +8) |   | Hi Ahmad,
Yes I have seen that news as well. There are also oil and gas reserves in the Sea of Japan but these are tricky to access due to political reasons. (even the name of the sea is being disputed!)
Cheers! | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Ahmad Abdallah Registered Member
        Date Joined May 2007 Total Posts : 183 | Posted 7/24/2008 4:37 PM (GMT +8) |   | That's for the sea of Japan with disuputed boundaries and access with China (just been resolved last month actually).
I'm refering to fields in the South | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Greg Atkinson Registered Member
        Date Joined Jul 2008 Total Posts : 136 | Posted 7/24/2008 5:54 PM (GMT +8) |   | | I think Ahmad you will find they have resolved one of just many issues to do with resources in the Sea of Japan. I think there are delicate issues everywhere in that sea and in the waters between Japan, Korea and China..not to mention Taiwan. | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Greg Atkinson Registered Member
        Date Joined Jul 2008 Total Posts : 136 | Posted 8/6/2008 4:42 PM (GMT +8) |   | Ahmad,
A couple of questions:
1. Do you see the recent correction in the oil price as further supporting your Peak Demand argument?
2. Do you think the recent higher oil prices have caused enough worry to trigger an irreversible move away from oil where possible and some significant long term investment in alternatives? (as opposed to things reverting to the norm if oil trades around $100)
Greg | | Back to Top | | |
  |  Rob Hawcroft Registered Member
        Date Joined Jul 2008 Total Posts : 275 | Posted 8/6/2008 8:28 PM (GMT +8) |   | In terms of economic cost partity, due to the rise in coal, gas, oil prices etc the cross over for solar and wind power generation cost versus the cost of generation from fossil fuels is now in 2010 in many European countries. After which power generation will be cheaper by alternative means.
On the other hand I was thinking about the effect of high Ag prices. High Ag prices should trigger a move away from labour intensive peasant farming in EM, esp. Asia and towards a scientific, industrial farming approach used in the OECD over a 5 or 10 year period. This should trigger a surge of the now surplus labour force into the cities, which will presumably require more metals and energy but also be deflationary? | | Back to Top | | |
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